"What happens if I say no? I just keep myself away from some trouble which can happen to defenseless and unaware people. The guy who got such a dangerous ideas can find other not scrupulous people to realize his project or even try to do it on his own... "
This is exactly the rationalization that continues to allow individuals like Ian to pursue such ridiculous climbs. If you say no, sure he may find someone else. But it is then your (and the rest of the climbing community's) responsibility to alienate guides who engage in such activitties and push for the barring of their licensures.
wow...and I felt being an abusive mom after taking my son to climb Colorado fourteeners (and we live at nearly 2000 meters elevation year round) - he puked after climbing 2 of them. I guess sometimes our ambitions make us blind...
Poor kid... he will probably never want to climb a mountain in his life...
I have to agree with Corax - it was a madness from the start!
McKeever’s other milestones include the speed ascent record for 35,000 feet, which involved climbing Croagh Patrick seven times in 17 hours.
Dude needs a Guinness or two and a laxative, and not necessarily in that order.
Obviously someone so driven to succeed at succeeding should not have custodial powers, it will only become a hindrance to their success. A little responsibility / fault lies with whoever allowed them into the snocat to continue higher up the mountain.
climbed the Wildspitze at ages 9 and eleven, and had absolutely no problems with that. I have read about seven years olds climbing the Matterhorn, and similar tall/difficult peaks, and I have heard one guide say, that he is generally more concerned about the adults than about the children! But I would never had let one of my kids climb any peak of any kind without either me or my wife going along. I think that was the gravest error committed. A (normal) parent will be more concerned about the child than any stranger, and if the child looks sick or has a high pulse will call the climb off.
Very good article! I think we can all relate to pushing ourselves sometimes beyond the prudent or safe level. After all, it is how great things are acheived. The difference in this case, as you clearly point out, is that Ian didn't push himself beyond the safe limits. He pushed a child beyond the safe limits, for his personal selfish gains. I'm glad you wrote this article to give exposure to this issue. What you said needed to be said.
Does putting gas in your car sponser terrorism?
Does owning a gun sponsor mass shootings?
Does having and using electricity in your home sponsor lung disease?
Does having domestic help sponsor illegal immagration?
I climb with my kids, but I don't "make" them do stuff they feel uncomfortable on. My safety threshold for my kids is much higher than for myself (and I consider myself a safe climber). I doubt that it will ever happen, but I could see my kids climbing to 18,000 at eleven. I'm never irresponsible to with my kids. I also believe a sedentary lifestyle will kill many more kids than mountains ever do.
I don't have a maid, but am guilty of all my previous questions. I do not consider myself a sponsor of any of those things I mention.
As career US service member and lifetime climber I do experience risk for duty's sake but I must also admit to taking preposterous risks for the sake "self actualization" and adventure. I had to call knock it off when my son was born! Embracing self-actualization or some other counter-culture,love-of-nature zen ideal is only putting a cheap mask on ordinary selfishness especially when you've got a child who needs you. This selfishness and hubris is what climbers have been guilty of all along. Neither original nor inspiring, what's-his-name exemplifies the most shameful form of mediocrity. He helps us all look like scoundrels. Not content to simply endanger himself, he put his child in peril to fortify his own ego. By the way, anyone with a basic knowledge of mountain safety knows that children are especially susceptible to hypoxia. How tall is Elbrus anyway? What the f---- over? Get this guy on Jerry Springer right away. Joe
Does the worldwide hotel chain sponsor children violence?
My name is Gordon Ward and together with Sean, his Godfather Ian and Adam I was part of this expedition to Elberus. It gauls me to see this kind of dishonest, cowardly and wholly inaccurate blogging online. But of course I guess that’s the joy of blogging online; one can sit comfortably in anonymity behind such a cowardly act, while attempting to defame the good name and reputation of all parties involved!
These are the simple facts pertaining to that trip
1. On the 5th of May 2008 together with his God father Ian mc Keever Sean stood proudly on the top of Kilimanjaro Mountain, (just under 6,000 metres) at the age of 10; the 2nd youngest person ever recorded to have done so and the youngest European on record. He did so in part because of his wonderful attitude which is so positive to everything he does in life but in equal measure because of the manner in which he was prepared meticulously by his Godfather Ian in every possible way, from physical and mental preparation to all aspects of his diet and strengthening his immune system ahead of a trip to altitude. Sean’s performance throughout; including his ability to adjust comfortably and acclimatise accordingly to altitude were witnessed and monitored first hand by the team form Tusker trails, his Godfather and indeed one of Europe’s most respected guides John Whittle who filmed the entire trip on camera.
2. On the back of his successful trip to Kilimanjaro, Sean indicated a willingness and desire to go to Argentina and the following year visit Aconcagua. In order to ascertain whether Sean would be able to adapt to more difficult conditions such as high winds and colder temperatures, Ian suggested a trip to Russia to see how he might fair on Elberus. To make the trip all the more enjoyable Ian invited along two other persons myself and Adam both of were keen to see Russia’s highest peak. Ian indicated a strong willingness to want to work with Alex a local Russian guide, with whom he had worked successfully twice in fact on his 7 summits world record success and so arrangements were made with Alex. In the blog it refers to the ‘rough experience’ Ian had previously on Elberus. On their 1st attempt a winter ascent during Ian’s seven summits record, one of Ian’s team became sick and at Ian’s request to the team leader Dave, the team turned back, hardly the actions of an egomaniac, consumed with breaking records? Ian, minus a larger ‘climbing party’ successfully summated Elberus in just 2 days.
3. Once again Sean prepared hard and enjoyed getting ready for the pending trip to Russia. We often joined himself and Ian on preparatory climbing trips before setting off. Working with kids every day of the week on behalf of the GAA (our National footballing body in Ireland) I was delighted to accompany the guys and having known Ian for over 20 years, I was well used to the manner in which he approached every challenge he ever undertook in life, (for those really interested in learning more you can read his book entitled ‘Give Me Shelter’. It’s worth pointing out that Sean’s success in Africa inspired many others back in Ireland to go on and do wonderful things like Clare Power aged 65 who would become the oldest Irish woman to stand at the summit of Kili.
4. We all took on board form the sponsor to the climbing party the fact that we only had in effect a matter of days to consider a summit attempt on Elberus and Ian was the 1st to point out that a 7-10 day period would have been preferable, but schooling and time off wasn’t an option at that stage. In light of same Ian pointed out to Sean and the rest of us that there was a very good chance we wouldn’t get to summit at all, given the required weather window but that if Sean was to happy to go and get the experience to be gleaned for being on the ice it was still worth going. Ian was conscious that the weather conditions would have to be ‘perfect’ to ever even allow Sean the chance to have a summit attempt. He knew that Sean could and would quickly adjust to altitude, however was he was equally concerned about the fact that we were now at the end of the summer season and condition on Elberus were now notorious for changing at this point.
5. Nobody displayed any symptoms of Acute mountain sickness whatsoever and to indicate same on the blog is another spiteful lie. Sean adjusted and performed well on the pre summit attempt as we made our made our way to the rock of Pastracov. It’s certainly true that his diet wasn’t in favour of many the foods we were eating in the hut (I can’t blame him to be fair) but no more than his Godfather he was a quite a fussy eater at the best of times! In any case on the night we hoped to summit I witnessed first hand the difficult conditions we were about to go into. The winds were high, it was bitterly cold and the ice was hard for crampon placement. At one point one of my gloves was blown 10 metres as I scurried to get it back. Far from the prefect conditions I’m afraid described by our ‘blogger’ and certainly not contusive to allowing a 10 year old attempt to summit. ‘It’s over guys – were turning back’ they were Ian’s words and he indicated very clearly from he outset, to Sean and myself and Adam that the summit attempt wasn’t on. In truth I’m glad he made that call and so following a brief discussion with the local mountain guide Alex we went back to our huts. Sadly time wouldn’t be giving us a second chance as we only ever really had one weather window opportunity and as anyone who has ever climbed reading this knows, one rarely gets to go above the clouds without at least having 1-2 spare climbing days.
6. The next day after we came off the mountain , Sean and Adam did a small altitude climb together and Sean performed extremely well while Ian did a communiqué back to our flagship programme Morning Ireland on the radio to keep them updated of progress. High winds were cited as the primary issue and reason for turning back, which is exactly why we did so. As Alex indicated himself to Sean et al had we more time to as would have been preferable then Sean would have stood every chance of a successful summit. Was he richer for the experience? For sure he is
7. On the matter of the manner in which Sean was looked after from start to finish, form his safety to his welfare – no kid could have been better cared for in every possible way. The love and support afforded to him at all times by his Godfather is a shining example for any of us contemplating setting a positive example for our kids going forward. What Sean has already achieved will stand him in the best of stead not only for his future but in life – we are all very proud of him
skyward22 - Apr 17, 2009 11:58 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Revolting"What happens if I say no? I just keep myself away from some trouble which can happen to defenseless and unaware people. The guy who got such a dangerous ideas can find other not scrupulous people to realize his project or even try to do it on his own... "
This is exactly the rationalization that continues to allow individuals like Ian to pursue such ridiculous climbs. If you say no, sure he may find someone else. But it is then your (and the rest of the climbing community's) responsibility to alienate guides who engage in such activitties and push for the barring of their licensures.
Liba Kopeckova - Apr 2, 2010 8:09 pm - Voted 10/10
Re: Revoltingwow...and I felt being an abusive mom after taking my son to climb Colorado fourteeners (and we live at nearly 2000 meters elevation year round) - he puked after climbing 2 of them. I guess sometimes our ambitions make us blind...
Poor kid... he will probably never want to climb a mountain in his life...
I have to agree with Corax - it was a madness from the start!
sixfingers - Apr 6, 2009 12:57 pm - Hasn't voted
His priority was........?From the Irish Examiner:
McKeever’s other milestones include the speed ascent record for 35,000 feet, which involved climbing Croagh Patrick seven times in 17 hours.
Dude needs a Guinness or two and a laxative, and not necessarily in that order.
Obviously someone so driven to succeed at succeeding should not have custodial powers, it will only become a hindrance to their success. A little responsibility / fault lies with whoever allowed them into the snocat to continue higher up the mountain.
Ejnar Fjerdingstad - Apr 8, 2009 6:16 pm - Voted 10/10
Our childrenclimbed the Wildspitze at ages 9 and eleven, and had absolutely no problems with that. I have read about seven years olds climbing the Matterhorn, and similar tall/difficult peaks, and I have heard one guide say, that he is generally more concerned about the adults than about the children! But I would never had let one of my kids climb any peak of any kind without either me or my wife going along. I think that was the gravest error committed. A (normal) parent will be more concerned about the child than any stranger, and if the child looks sick or has a high pulse will call the climb off.
BigRob - Apr 17, 2009 12:55 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Our childrenCopy that...I'm with you.
mthomas - Apr 15, 2009 1:16 am - Voted 10/10
The difference is the childHi Alex!
Very good article! I think we can all relate to pushing ourselves sometimes beyond the prudent or safe level. After all, it is how great things are acheived. The difference in this case, as you clearly point out, is that Ian didn't push himself beyond the safe limits. He pushed a child beyond the safe limits, for his personal selfish gains. I'm glad you wrote this article to give exposure to this issue. What you said needed to be said.
Until we climb together again,
Michael Thomas
alexclimb - Apr 23, 2009 6:23 am - Hasn't voted
Re: The difference is the childHola, Amigo mio! Parece que SummitPost - es el mejor lugar del encuentro! Soy muy contento verte aquí, muchas gracias por tu comentario!
BigRob - Apr 17, 2009 12:01 pm - Hasn't voted
Title?Does putting gas in your car sponser terrorism?
Does owning a gun sponsor mass shootings?
Does having and using electricity in your home sponsor lung disease?
Does having domestic help sponsor illegal immagration?
I climb with my kids, but I don't "make" them do stuff they feel uncomfortable on. My safety threshold for my kids is much higher than for myself (and I consider myself a safe climber). I doubt that it will ever happen, but I could see my kids climbing to 18,000 at eleven. I'm never irresponsible to with my kids. I also believe a sedentary lifestyle will kill many more kids than mountains ever do.
I don't have a maid, but am guilty of all my previous questions. I do not consider myself a sponsor of any of those things I mention.
crewdoglm - May 15, 2009 7:38 pm - Hasn't voted
Trailer trash mountaineer...As career US service member and lifetime climber I do experience risk for duty's sake but I must also admit to taking preposterous risks for the sake "self actualization" and adventure. I had to call knock it off when my son was born! Embracing self-actualization or some other counter-culture,love-of-nature zen ideal is only putting a cheap mask on ordinary selfishness especially when you've got a child who needs you. This selfishness and hubris is what climbers have been guilty of all along. Neither original nor inspiring, what's-his-name exemplifies the most shameful form of mediocrity. He helps us all look like scoundrels. Not content to simply endanger himself, he put his child in peril to fortify his own ego. By the way, anyone with a basic knowledge of mountain safety knows that children are especially susceptible to hypoxia. How tall is Elbrus anyway? What the f---- over? Get this guy on Jerry Springer right away. Joe
gmacanbhaird1 - May 25, 2009 5:39 pm - Voted 1/10
Response to Alex Climb misrepresentationDoes the worldwide hotel chain sponsor children violence?
My name is Gordon Ward and together with Sean, his Godfather Ian and Adam I was part of this expedition to Elberus. It gauls me to see this kind of dishonest, cowardly and wholly inaccurate blogging online. But of course I guess that’s the joy of blogging online; one can sit comfortably in anonymity behind such a cowardly act, while attempting to defame the good name and reputation of all parties involved!
These are the simple facts pertaining to that trip
1. On the 5th of May 2008 together with his God father Ian mc Keever Sean stood proudly on the top of Kilimanjaro Mountain, (just under 6,000 metres) at the age of 10; the 2nd youngest person ever recorded to have done so and the youngest European on record. He did so in part because of his wonderful attitude which is so positive to everything he does in life but in equal measure because of the manner in which he was prepared meticulously by his Godfather Ian in every possible way, from physical and mental preparation to all aspects of his diet and strengthening his immune system ahead of a trip to altitude. Sean’s performance throughout; including his ability to adjust comfortably and acclimatise accordingly to altitude were witnessed and monitored first hand by the team form Tusker trails, his Godfather and indeed one of Europe’s most respected guides John Whittle who filmed the entire trip on camera.
2. On the back of his successful trip to Kilimanjaro, Sean indicated a willingness and desire to go to Argentina and the following year visit Aconcagua. In order to ascertain whether Sean would be able to adapt to more difficult conditions such as high winds and colder temperatures, Ian suggested a trip to Russia to see how he might fair on Elberus. To make the trip all the more enjoyable Ian invited along two other persons myself and Adam both of were keen to see Russia’s highest peak. Ian indicated a strong willingness to want to work with Alex a local Russian guide, with whom he had worked successfully twice in fact on his 7 summits world record success and so arrangements were made with Alex. In the blog it refers to the ‘rough experience’ Ian had previously on Elberus. On their 1st attempt a winter ascent during Ian’s seven summits record, one of Ian’s team became sick and at Ian’s request to the team leader Dave, the team turned back, hardly the actions of an egomaniac, consumed with breaking records? Ian, minus a larger ‘climbing party’ successfully summated Elberus in just 2 days.
3. Once again Sean prepared hard and enjoyed getting ready for the pending trip to Russia. We often joined himself and Ian on preparatory climbing trips before setting off. Working with kids every day of the week on behalf of the GAA (our National footballing body in Ireland) I was delighted to accompany the guys and having known Ian for over 20 years, I was well used to the manner in which he approached every challenge he ever undertook in life, (for those really interested in learning more you can read his book entitled ‘Give Me Shelter’. It’s worth pointing out that Sean’s success in Africa inspired many others back in Ireland to go on and do wonderful things like Clare Power aged 65 who would become the oldest Irish woman to stand at the summit of Kili.
4. We all took on board form the sponsor to the climbing party the fact that we only had in effect a matter of days to consider a summit attempt on Elberus and Ian was the 1st to point out that a 7-10 day period would have been preferable, but schooling and time off wasn’t an option at that stage. In light of same Ian pointed out to Sean and the rest of us that there was a very good chance we wouldn’t get to summit at all, given the required weather window but that if Sean was to happy to go and get the experience to be gleaned for being on the ice it was still worth going. Ian was conscious that the weather conditions would have to be ‘perfect’ to ever even allow Sean the chance to have a summit attempt. He knew that Sean could and would quickly adjust to altitude, however was he was equally concerned about the fact that we were now at the end of the summer season and condition on Elberus were now notorious for changing at this point.
5. Nobody displayed any symptoms of Acute mountain sickness whatsoever and to indicate same on the blog is another spiteful lie. Sean adjusted and performed well on the pre summit attempt as we made our made our way to the rock of Pastracov. It’s certainly true that his diet wasn’t in favour of many the foods we were eating in the hut (I can’t blame him to be fair) but no more than his Godfather he was a quite a fussy eater at the best of times! In any case on the night we hoped to summit I witnessed first hand the difficult conditions we were about to go into. The winds were high, it was bitterly cold and the ice was hard for crampon placement. At one point one of my gloves was blown 10 metres as I scurried to get it back. Far from the prefect conditions I’m afraid described by our ‘blogger’ and certainly not contusive to allowing a 10 year old attempt to summit. ‘It’s over guys – were turning back’ they were Ian’s words and he indicated very clearly from he outset, to Sean and myself and Adam that the summit attempt wasn’t on. In truth I’m glad he made that call and so following a brief discussion with the local mountain guide Alex we went back to our huts. Sadly time wouldn’t be giving us a second chance as we only ever really had one weather window opportunity and as anyone who has ever climbed reading this knows, one rarely gets to go above the clouds without at least having 1-2 spare climbing days.
6. The next day after we came off the mountain , Sean and Adam did a small altitude climb together and Sean performed extremely well while Ian did a communiqué back to our flagship programme Morning Ireland on the radio to keep them updated of progress. High winds were cited as the primary issue and reason for turning back, which is exactly why we did so. As Alex indicated himself to Sean et al had we more time to as would have been preferable then Sean would have stood every chance of a successful summit. Was he richer for the experience? For sure he is
7. On the matter of the manner in which Sean was looked after from start to finish, form his safety to his welfare – no kid could have been better cared for in every possible way. The love and support afforded to him at all times by his Godfather is a shining example for any of us contemplating setting a positive example for our kids going forward. What Sean has already achieved will stand him in the best of stead not only for his future but in life – we are all very proud of him