I'm actually experienced with avalanche conditions, that wasn't the issue. I had checked the snowpack in the area and knew it was layered poorly. When I arrived at the crater the conditions were stable, it was when I began climbing it turned way mild and the layers lost there bond. But it was a big risk and mistake to continue, sometimes it's hard to turn back! The weather in this region can be tricky sometimes to call, if we get the south wind it heats up fast, if we don't it stays cooler. On this day the warm air moved in fast. I should have taken two days for sure to do this, then I could have went up early in the morning the next day. I appreciate the advise though, that is why I posted this report to show what can happen.
You hit it right on the nail! I posted this as a learning tool, and what not to do. I'm a very goal oriented person and sometimes turning back is hard to do, which can be a bad thing in this sport. This is one of the few times I have went against my better judgement. Most of my climbing is in the winter, and I run into a lot of bad elements at times, most I can handle, or don't become immediate life threatening. This one I knew better, and decided to keep going, not a good thing to do.
The inside of the bowl is a reflector oven, unless your high temps are reported in the teens, any sun will nuke that place. As soon as you mentioned the soft snow in the crater, you should of known better than even going in there. It slides all the time, especially with the sun shining.
Your "300 feet from the summit" is extremely off base. From the top of 9' o clock it's a LONG tedious traverse towards the top of the NW ridge to summit. Even in good conditions it can take up to an hour. It's the traverse you spoke of, with the long run-out to the bottom of the west face.
I've been up both 9 and 11 a few times, i would NEVER go up them with fresh snow. They both cornice up and the cornices break off when it warms up. You are very lucky, i hope you learned a lot.
Thank you for the insight on the crater. The 300 feet I was refering to was just the approximate elevation gain from the top of the couloir to the summit, it's 0.20 miles from the top of the couloir to the summit approximately. I should have written that clearer. I did take away a lot of knowledge from this climb. Mostly turning back when I know things are not good, and yes I got very lucky!!
Not ashamed to show mistakes. Everyone out there has done something that went against good judgement at one time or another. It's a dangerous sport to begin with, and soon as you head out onto a mountain your in some level of danger. But I enjoyed the trip, and I feel sometimes more knowledge is gained from a trip like this than the routine trip. Don't plan on making that mistake again, but as often I climb something I'm sure I will have another adventure to tell.
...for sharing. I think (as a newb to mountaineering) that it's obvious this report is for educating, not simply to show-off or entertain. I for one, appreciate the lessons you learned on your trip that you've taught me. I disagree with patrick completely. The reason I come to this site is to evaluate potential hikes/climbs and when I come across tough lessons learned it perks my ears up. Thanks again,
Thanks for recognizing the purpose of this post. You can only gain so much from training and education on something but in the long run, it's the lessons you learn from actually doing it. I started out in this sport from the bottom and have slowly been working my way up in difficulty. Take care.
Having recently got into more mountaineering myself, it's invaluable to hear reports of trips, especially the bad ones. It's a dangerous enough activity as it is, and being able to learn from other peoples experiences is a good way to avoid them. Thanks for the report.
calebEOC - Feb 28, 2008 11:42 pm - Voted 10/10
Good readGlad you survived, sounds like a long frightening day.
bechtt - Feb 29, 2008 10:11 am - Voted 10/10
Great storyand good lesson on knowing when to turn back. Thanks for sharing.
ISL - Mar 3, 2008 12:50 am - Hasn't voted
!Please, for the sake of folks who care about you and those who'll come up to recover your body, strongly consider taking an avalanche safety course.
You're lucky.
Bombchaser - Mar 3, 2008 11:51 am - Hasn't voted
Re: !I'm actually experienced with avalanche conditions, that wasn't the issue. I had checked the snowpack in the area and knew it was layered poorly. When I arrived at the crater the conditions were stable, it was when I began climbing it turned way mild and the layers lost there bond. But it was a big risk and mistake to continue, sometimes it's hard to turn back! The weather in this region can be tricky sometimes to call, if we get the south wind it heats up fast, if we don't it stays cooler. On this day the warm air moved in fast. I should have taken two days for sure to do this, then I could have went up early in the morning the next day. I appreciate the advise though, that is why I posted this report to show what can happen.
Bombchaser - Mar 3, 2008 1:09 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Warm=bad.You hit it right on the nail! I posted this as a learning tool, and what not to do. I'm a very goal oriented person and sometimes turning back is hard to do, which can be a bad thing in this sport. This is one of the few times I have went against my better judgement. Most of my climbing is in the winter, and I run into a lot of bad elements at times, most I can handle, or don't become immediate life threatening. This one I knew better, and decided to keep going, not a good thing to do.
jlag - Mar 3, 2008 12:29 pm - Hasn't voted
Your luckyThe inside of the bowl is a reflector oven, unless your high temps are reported in the teens, any sun will nuke that place. As soon as you mentioned the soft snow in the crater, you should of known better than even going in there. It slides all the time, especially with the sun shining.
Your "300 feet from the summit" is extremely off base. From the top of 9' o clock it's a LONG tedious traverse towards the top of the NW ridge to summit. Even in good conditions it can take up to an hour. It's the traverse you spoke of, with the long run-out to the bottom of the west face.
I've been up both 9 and 11 a few times, i would NEVER go up them with fresh snow. They both cornice up and the cornices break off when it warms up. You are very lucky, i hope you learned a lot.
Bombchaser - Mar 3, 2008 1:05 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Your luckyThank you for the insight on the crater. The 300 feet I was refering to was just the approximate elevation gain from the top of the couloir to the summit, it's 0.20 miles from the top of the couloir to the summit approximately. I should have written that clearer. I did take away a lot of knowledge from this climb. Mostly turning back when I know things are not good, and yes I got very lucky!!
gabem - Mar 6, 2008 7:35 pm - Hasn't voted
Great ReadThanks for sharing the trip report. I enjoyed reading it and am glad that you ultimately were safe. Great photos too!
Bombchaser - Mar 6, 2008 8:58 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Great ReadThanks...
patrick - Mar 7, 2008 7:59 pm - Hasn't voted
whoaNo need to advertise your mistakes to everyone on summitpost. Keep that one under your hat and never repeat it.
Bombchaser - Mar 7, 2008 10:19 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: whoaNot ashamed to show mistakes. Everyone out there has done something that went against good judgement at one time or another. It's a dangerous sport to begin with, and soon as you head out onto a mountain your in some level of danger. But I enjoyed the trip, and I feel sometimes more knowledge is gained from a trip like this than the routine trip. Don't plan on making that mistake again, but as often I climb something I'm sure I will have another adventure to tell.
formerrxstudent - Sep 15, 2010 2:57 am - Hasn't voted
Thanks...for sharing. I think (as a newb to mountaineering) that it's obvious this report is for educating, not simply to show-off or entertain. I for one, appreciate the lessons you learned on your trip that you've taught me. I disagree with patrick completely. The reason I come to this site is to evaluate potential hikes/climbs and when I come across tough lessons learned it perks my ears up. Thanks again,
Andy
Bombchaser - Sep 17, 2010 7:16 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: ThanksThanks for recognizing the purpose of this post. You can only gain so much from training and education on something but in the long run, it's the lessons you learn from actually doing it. I started out in this sport from the bottom and have slowly been working my way up in difficulty. Take care.
santanoni - Apr 15, 2011 9:10 pm - Hasn't voted
Second that SentimentHaving recently got into more mountaineering myself, it's invaluable to hear reports of trips, especially the bad ones. It's a dangerous enough activity as it is, and being able to learn from other peoples experiences is a good way to avoid them. Thanks for the report.