Yes this can happen and has happened to me when I have camped near huts. I have also had freinds forced to sit out in the rain while the meal was served since they did not pay for the meal. They were not even allowed to cook thier meal near the hut but had to go down the way a bit.
In all depends on the hut, in some they will cook your meal for you for a price or even allow ou to eat it indoors for a price.
Unfortunetly it does come down to the fact that they are there to make money and if you don't pay why should we help you.
This is a more recent trend with alot of climbers comming from far afield (Easter Europe mainly) who can't afford to stay in the huts but use the facilities none the less. I think the hut operators have every right to complain as they work very long hours for little pay. You might think that using the bathroom doesn't cost any money but at one hut I know of it costs about 500sf a week to clean up and fly the waste down to the vally floor, so people who do not pay really cost them money.
A sad fact for any of us who like to camp while out in the Alps.
On one hand we must understand the staff in huts, because they make living by selling hut services. On the other side, if I was in their skin, I would never behave like this.
I almost NEVER sleep in huts. It's not that I could not afford it, but for me sleeping outside is more pleasant and I like to be independent. But also I'm not staying close to huts. I allways wait till night falls and only then set up a tent and with dawn remove it. Once we were with children some 200m from one such hut and set up a tent too early. A guy came with a dog, saying it's a Nature park and that camping is prohibited. So we packed the tent, but stayed there. He suddenly didn't now what to say and of course we slept there over night. It was even more pleasant.
It’s definitely sad to conclude that you have a point!
“…if you don’t pay, why should we help you?” …and this is how the human mind works in our days in the so called “civilised” countrys (if one goes for example to the Refuge Nelter – Toubkal, Marocos, one has a totally different experience, even if you don’t pay to sleep there.)
My mind will never work like this (maybe that’s why I couldn’t understand/accept the answer given to me when I asked about the weather in the refuge “for you it’s good, you should go up today…”, this is playing with human life). I will always try to help those who need if I can, especially in the mountains, ESPECIALLY under adverse conditions (as it was happening) just because the mountains are sometimes very tricky environments and human life is too precious.
“If planning to camp in the vicinity of a hut, the proper etiquette for campers is to inquire at the hut as to where camping is permitted and what fees (if any) are involved for toilet use and whatever other amenities that you wish to use”, Fred, you are absolutely right about this and we didn’t do it…this reflects our inexperience (although I already have quite a lot of mountains in my legs, I’m only on Alpinism for 2 years) , next time I’ll do it.
About the costs involved in sanitation, of course I know they exist (and it was the only thing I used…today, I almost regret it!), still, that doesn’t justify the unkind answer given to me…she could’ve explained to me in a more polite way, and I would never mind to pay a fee if needed to use the toilets.
I want to leave it clear that the problem is not the money (I stay in tents or whenever I can I bivouac because I like it more), is the bad attitude…there are several ways to say the same thing, and the staff of the refuge for sure didn’t use the right one.
I use this way to report a very unpleasant situation that happened while staying near Mont Rose hut, between me and 2 other friends and the staff of the hut.
My friends and me decided to try the Mont Rose in the end of August, so we did the approach on the 28th of August. We settled our tent in a place about 100m far down from the refuge; in a place that we could recognize other tents were there before (there was a stone barrier already built to protect from the wind).
We went to the refuge to drink a Cola and check the weather report, and since it is ONLY in german, we decided to ask the girl working there at that time, what was the weather like for the next day. Not nicely, she informed us that there would be a storm on that night and the day after (and it happened!).
At about midday of the 29 August, we went once more to the refuge to check the weather report, to evaluate the possibilities of going up that evening. We were very well received by a Swiss guide staying there with a group, witch told us to return at about 20:00 to get a more precise information about it, since the weather was very unstable and at that time they would get some more radio information. And so we did. At about 20:30, in the bar of the refuge, we asked the girl working there (the same as the day before) if the weather would be good to try the summit on that evening, and we got pretty surprised with the answer “For you it will be fine, because if you don’t go up tonight, either you go away with your tent, or you pay the refuge. If you can use our toilets, drink our water and cook were, you can also pay for the refuge”. I tried to explain her that the water we were drinking was passing right next to the tent (24h raining were a good help not to look for water more than 5m far from the tent!), that we NEVER cooked there but inside the tent, and the toilets we used ONLY in our…”bigger needs”, just not to pollute the area around (it would be much more comfortable for us NOT to use the toilets, since to go there we had to walk a few minutes up and down in the middle of the storm!). Still, she didn’t tell us the weather conditions for that evening, saying loud all the time “For you it’s good, you should go up today or else you pay for the refuge. If you want to stay with your tent, you stay far up of the refuge”.
I wonder…where is the so-called kindness and willing to help the mountaineers who DON’T understand the german and decide NOT to sleep in the refuge??
Where is the mountain spirit????
Is asking for a translation of the weather report, such a big deal???
I truly hope that this is not the normal situation in the other refuges in Swiss; I was very badly impressed! This kind of attitude left us with the feeling that this refuge is only a money making machine, not concerning about the well being of persons in the mountain, except for those who PAY to sleep there.
Again, I had to thank to the Swiss guide staying there, witch after the reported happening, gave us the concrete information about the weather and some precious advises.
Daniela and…”The Portuguese of the yellow tent” (like some people of the refuge called us!)
Yes this can happen and has happened to me when I have camped near huts. I have also had freinds forced to sit out in the rain while the meal was served since they did not pay for the meal. They were not even allowed to cook thier meal near the hut but had to go down the way a bit.
In all depends on the hut, in some they will cook your meal for you for a price or even allow ou to eat it indoors for a price.
Unfortunetly it does come down to the fact that they are there to make money and if you don't pay why should we help you.
This is a more recent trend with alot of climbers comming from far afield (Easter Europe mainly) who can't afford to stay in the huts but use the facilities none the less. I think the hut operators have every right to complain as they work very long hours for little pay. You might think that using the bathroom doesn't cost any money but at one hut I know of it costs about 500sf a week to clean up and fly the waste down to the vally floor, so people who do not pay really cost them money.
A sad fact for any of us who like to camp while out in the Alps.
On one hand we must understand the staff in huts, because they make living by selling hut services. On the other side, if I was in their skin, I would never behave like this.
I almost NEVER sleep in huts. It's not that I could not afford it, but for me sleeping outside is more pleasant and I like to be independent. But also I'm not staying close to huts. I allways wait till night falls and only then set up a tent and with dawn remove it. Once we were with children some 200m from one such hut and set up a tent too early. A guy came with a dog, saying it's a Nature park and that camping is prohibited. So we packed the tent, but stayed there. He suddenly didn't now what to say and of course we slept there over night. It was even more pleasant.
It’s definitely sad to conclude that you have a point!
“…if you don’t pay, why should we help you?” …and this is how the human mind works in our days in the so called “civilised” countrys (if one goes for example to the Refuge Nelter – Toubkal, Marocos, one has a totally different experience, even if you don’t pay to sleep there.)
My mind will never work like this (maybe that’s why I couldn’t understand/accept the answer given to me when I asked about the weather in the refuge “for you it’s good, you should go up today…”, this is playing with human life). I will always try to help those who need if I can, especially in the mountains, ESPECIALLY under adverse conditions (as it was happening) just because the mountains are sometimes very tricky environments and human life is too precious.
“If planning to camp in the vicinity of a hut, the proper etiquette for campers is to inquire at the hut as to where camping is permitted and what fees (if any) are involved for toilet use and whatever other amenities that you wish to use”, Fred, you are absolutely right about this and we didn’t do it…this reflects our inexperience (although I already have quite a lot of mountains in my legs, I’m only on Alpinism for 2 years) , next time I’ll do it.
About the costs involved in sanitation, of course I know they exist (and it was the only thing I used…today, I almost regret it!), still, that doesn’t justify the unkind answer given to me…she could’ve explained to me in a more polite way, and I would never mind to pay a fee if needed to use the toilets.
I want to leave it clear that the problem is not the money (I stay in tents or whenever I can I bivouac because I like it more), is the bad attitude…there are several ways to say the same thing, and the staff of the refuge for sure didn’t use the right one.
JScoles - Sep 11, 2003 7:23 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentYes this can happen and has happened to me when I have camped near huts. I have also had freinds forced to sit out in the rain while the meal was served since they did not pay for the meal. They were not even allowed to cook thier meal near the hut but had to go down the way a bit.
In all depends on the hut, in some they will cook your meal for you for a price or even allow ou to eat it indoors for a price.
Unfortunetly it does come down to the fact that they are there to make money and if you don't pay why should we help you.
This is a more recent trend with alot of climbers comming from far afield (Easter Europe mainly) who can't afford to stay in the huts but use the facilities none the less. I think the hut operators have every right to complain as they work very long hours for little pay. You might think that using the bathroom doesn't cost any money but at one hut I know of it costs about 500sf a week to clean up and fly the waste down to the vally floor, so people who do not pay really cost them money.
A sad fact for any of us who like to camp while out in the Alps.
Cheers
Vid Pogachnik - Sep 13, 2003 1:50 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentOn one hand we must understand the staff in huts, because they make living by selling hut services. On the other side, if I was in their skin, I would never behave like this.
I almost NEVER sleep in huts. It's not that I could not afford it, but for me sleeping outside is more pleasant and I like to be independent. But also I'm not staying close to huts. I allways wait till night falls and only then set up a tent and with dawn remove it. Once we were with children some 200m from one such hut and set up a tent too early. A guy came with a dog, saying it's a Nature park and that camping is prohibited. So we packed the tent, but stayed there. He suddenly didn't now what to say and of course we slept there over night. It was even more pleasant.
Daniela - Sep 15, 2003 11:01 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled Comment(I’ll use this one to answer also to Fred)
It’s definitely sad to conclude that you have a point!
“…if you don’t pay, why should we help you?” …and this is how the human mind works in our days in the so called “civilised” countrys (if one goes for example to the Refuge Nelter – Toubkal, Marocos, one has a totally different experience, even if you don’t pay to sleep there.)
My mind will never work like this (maybe that’s why I couldn’t understand/accept the answer given to me when I asked about the weather in the refuge “for you it’s good, you should go up today…”, this is playing with human life). I will always try to help those who need if I can, especially in the mountains, ESPECIALLY under adverse conditions (as it was happening) just because the mountains are sometimes very tricky environments and human life is too precious.
“If planning to camp in the vicinity of a hut, the proper etiquette for campers is to inquire at the hut as to where camping is permitted and what fees (if any) are involved for toilet use and whatever other amenities that you wish to use”, Fred, you are absolutely right about this and we didn’t do it…this reflects our inexperience (although I already have quite a lot of mountains in my legs, I’m only on Alpinism for 2 years) , next time I’ll do it.
About the costs involved in sanitation, of course I know they exist (and it was the only thing I used…today, I almost regret it!), still, that doesn’t justify the unkind answer given to me…she could’ve explained to me in a more polite way, and I would never mind to pay a fee if needed to use the toilets.
I want to leave it clear that the problem is not the money (I stay in tents or whenever I can I bivouac because I like it more), is the bad attitude…there are several ways to say the same thing, and the staff of the refuge for sure didn’t use the right one.
Stay well
:)
Daniela - Sep 10, 2003 11:35 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentI use this way to report a very unpleasant situation that happened while staying near Mont Rose hut, between me and 2 other friends and the staff of the hut.
My friends and me decided to try the Mont Rose in the end of August, so we did the approach on the 28th of August. We settled our tent in a place about 100m far down from the refuge; in a place that we could recognize other tents were there before (there was a stone barrier already built to protect from the wind).
We went to the refuge to drink a Cola and check the weather report, and since it is ONLY in german, we decided to ask the girl working there at that time, what was the weather like for the next day. Not nicely, she informed us that there would be a storm on that night and the day after (and it happened!).
At about midday of the 29 August, we went once more to the refuge to check the weather report, to evaluate the possibilities of going up that evening. We were very well received by a Swiss guide staying there with a group, witch told us to return at about 20:00 to get a more precise information about it, since the weather was very unstable and at that time they would get some more radio information. And so we did. At about 20:30, in the bar of the refuge, we asked the girl working there (the same as the day before) if the weather would be good to try the summit on that evening, and we got pretty surprised with the answer “For you it will be fine, because if you don’t go up tonight, either you go away with your tent, or you pay the refuge. If you can use our toilets, drink our water and cook were, you can also pay for the refuge”. I tried to explain her that the water we were drinking was passing right next to the tent (24h raining were a good help not to look for water more than 5m far from the tent!), that we NEVER cooked there but inside the tent, and the toilets we used ONLY in our…”bigger needs”, just not to pollute the area around (it would be much more comfortable for us NOT to use the toilets, since to go there we had to walk a few minutes up and down in the middle of the storm!). Still, she didn’t tell us the weather conditions for that evening, saying loud all the time “For you it’s good, you should go up today or else you pay for the refuge. If you want to stay with your tent, you stay far up of the refuge”.
I wonder…where is the so-called kindness and willing to help the mountaineers who DON’T understand the german and decide NOT to sleep in the refuge??
Where is the mountain spirit????
Is asking for a translation of the weather report, such a big deal???
I truly hope that this is not the normal situation in the other refuges in Swiss; I was very badly impressed! This kind of attitude left us with the feeling that this refuge is only a money making machine, not concerning about the well being of persons in the mountain, except for those who PAY to sleep there.
Again, I had to thank to the Swiss guide staying there, witch after the reported happening, gave us the concrete information about the weather and some precious advises.
Daniela and…”The Portuguese of the yellow tent” (like some people of the refuge called us!)
JScoles - Sep 11, 2003 7:23 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentYes this can happen and has happened to me when I have camped near huts. I have also had freinds forced to sit out in the rain while the meal was served since they did not pay for the meal. They were not even allowed to cook thier meal near the hut but had to go down the way a bit.
In all depends on the hut, in some they will cook your meal for you for a price or even allow ou to eat it indoors for a price.
Unfortunetly it does come down to the fact that they are there to make money and if you don't pay why should we help you.
This is a more recent trend with alot of climbers comming from far afield (Easter Europe mainly) who can't afford to stay in the huts but use the facilities none the less. I think the hut operators have every right to complain as they work very long hours for little pay. You might think that using the bathroom doesn't cost any money but at one hut I know of it costs about 500sf a week to clean up and fly the waste down to the vally floor, so people who do not pay really cost them money.
A sad fact for any of us who like to camp while out in the Alps.
Cheers
Vid Pogachnik - Sep 13, 2003 1:50 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentOn one hand we must understand the staff in huts, because they make living by selling hut services. On the other side, if I was in their skin, I would never behave like this.
I almost NEVER sleep in huts. It's not that I could not afford it, but for me sleeping outside is more pleasant and I like to be independent. But also I'm not staying close to huts. I allways wait till night falls and only then set up a tent and with dawn remove it. Once we were with children some 200m from one such hut and set up a tent too early. A guy came with a dog, saying it's a Nature park and that camping is prohibited. So we packed the tent, but stayed there. He suddenly didn't now what to say and of course we slept there over night. It was even more pleasant.
Daniela - Sep 15, 2003 11:01 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled Comment(I’ll use this one to answer also to Fred)
It’s definitely sad to conclude that you have a point!
“…if you don’t pay, why should we help you?” …and this is how the human mind works in our days in the so called “civilised” countrys (if one goes for example to the Refuge Nelter – Toubkal, Marocos, one has a totally different experience, even if you don’t pay to sleep there.)
My mind will never work like this (maybe that’s why I couldn’t understand/accept the answer given to me when I asked about the weather in the refuge “for you it’s good, you should go up today…”, this is playing with human life). I will always try to help those who need if I can, especially in the mountains, ESPECIALLY under adverse conditions (as it was happening) just because the mountains are sometimes very tricky environments and human life is too precious.
“If planning to camp in the vicinity of a hut, the proper etiquette for campers is to inquire at the hut as to where camping is permitted and what fees (if any) are involved for toilet use and whatever other amenities that you wish to use”, Fred, you are absolutely right about this and we didn’t do it…this reflects our inexperience (although I already have quite a lot of mountains in my legs, I’m only on Alpinism for 2 years) , next time I’ll do it.
About the costs involved in sanitation, of course I know they exist (and it was the only thing I used…today, I almost regret it!), still, that doesn’t justify the unkind answer given to me…she could’ve explained to me in a more polite way, and I would never mind to pay a fee if needed to use the toilets.
I want to leave it clear that the problem is not the money (I stay in tents or whenever I can I bivouac because I like it more), is the bad attitude…there are several ways to say the same thing, and the staff of the refuge for sure didn’t use the right one.
Stay well
:)