Sounds like a good trip. Makes me miss the big sky of Wy/Mt. BTW, you ought to learn to recognize Polaris, as they say, 'Necessity is the mother of invention.'
When the ranger was talking to us, he talked about how it was difficult to keep climbing legal on the tower when climbers break the rules (like we did). He told us that there were many organizations hell bent on getting climbing banned, and our little bivy was not exactly helping the climbers' "cause". So I felt really bad that I had jeopardized that. Now maybe the ranger built up the point more than necessary, but what I meant by that sentence is that if a situation arises where you need to break some rules in order to stay safe or not get hurt, you should probably break those rules. Hope that clears things up...
Having someone have to stay over night on the tower won't piss off the Enviro-nuts as bad as someone getting killed (or climbing in "raptor territory")... I like most the rangers in this area of the country, because most of them are climbers themselves. I'm guessing that guy was just happy you didn't do something dumb and end up dead rather then cold.
Awesome experience. Knock off a big project "on the fly" and low budget. Spend a night up there. "Close Encounters" ha ha. Sensational. With any luck, this won't be the wildest thing you ever do and walk away clear.
interesting report and good sense shown in waiting for a clear identification of the right abseil points.
One thing I have to ask though is what do the local climbing community think about you aiding a free route? This is a no no across the pond, the principle being if you can't free the route as indicated in the guide go and do something you can free!
Maybe in the USA climbing morals are a bit different? I would be interested to know.
cheers Johnnie
That's a good point Johnnie. I did feel pretty lame when we were aiding, yet I know many routes all over the U.S. have aid lines that can/are climbed free, it's just that much more difficult. I think it depends on the route and where you are in terms of aiding a free route.
good point McC,
I guess the same applies over here in the UK, many routes that were first climbed with various points of aid are often later "free climbed".
I don't think we have the same tradition of "sport climbs" here as many other countries do where fixed protection points such as bolts are left in free climbs for clipping as runners, but then we don't have many big walls like you guys.
cheers Johnnie
If you're clean aiding on a free route and not holding up any climbing parties below you, I see no problem. Aren't Climbing Ethics in place to create a uniform understanding when talking about ascents and to protect the beauty and integrity of climbing areas. Aiding a free line shouldn't be a problem if you're not trying to claim that you climbed it free or leaving pitons or piton scars behind.
Climbing is about having fun and staying alive, in more than one sense of the word.
Good Job on making the safer decision to bivy!
Keep working on your speed and efficiency and before you know it you'll be topping out 17-pitch free routes in the dark.
Stay Alive!
atavist - Apr 19, 2009 9:01 am - Hasn't voted
big starsSounds like a good trip. Makes me miss the big sky of Wy/Mt. BTW, you ought to learn to recognize Polaris, as they say, 'Necessity is the mother of invention.'
Saintgrizzly - Apr 19, 2009 12:46 pm - Hasn't voted
What...?-Not upsetting the local climbing community is very important, but when it comes down to it, in climbing, you gotta do what you gotta do.
That seems to be a very contradictory sentence. What do you mean?
McCannster - Apr 19, 2009 1:18 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: What...?When the ranger was talking to us, he talked about how it was difficult to keep climbing legal on the tower when climbers break the rules (like we did). He told us that there were many organizations hell bent on getting climbing banned, and our little bivy was not exactly helping the climbers' "cause". So I felt really bad that I had jeopardized that. Now maybe the ranger built up the point more than necessary, but what I meant by that sentence is that if a situation arises where you need to break some rules in order to stay safe or not get hurt, you should probably break those rules. Hope that clears things up...
brendon - Apr 19, 2009 1:49 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: What...?Maybe add "to survive" to the end of that sentence.
McCannster - Apr 19, 2009 4:26 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: What's in your brain?haha, thanks.
bigmac - Apr 19, 2009 10:31 pm - Voted 10/10
Glad you guys made the right choiceHaving someone have to stay over night on the tower won't piss off the Enviro-nuts as bad as someone getting killed (or climbing in "raptor territory")... I like most the rangers in this area of the country, because most of them are climbers themselves. I'm guessing that guy was just happy you didn't do something dumb and end up dead rather then cold.
rhyang - Apr 19, 2009 11:38 pm - Voted 10/10
Another proud member .... of the frozen bivy club :) Nice work David !
John Duffield - Apr 21, 2009 9:15 am - Voted 10/10
Great Read!!!Awesome experience. Knock off a big project "on the fly" and low budget. Spend a night up there. "Close Encounters" ha ha. Sensational. With any luck, this won't be the wildest thing you ever do and walk away clear.
Al Pine - Apr 22, 2009 6:31 pm - Hasn't voted
Great ReadPretty intense. I haven't been on SP for a while and the moment I checked it this story was on the first page. Take care and stay safe.
McCannster - Apr 22, 2009 8:16 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Great ReadThanks Al. Nice to see you back on SP.
Bob Burd - Apr 22, 2009 8:47 pm - Voted 10/10
It appears you are now ready...... to tackle the awesome Mt. Eylar. Give me a buzz when you get back in town again. Great story.
McCannster - Apr 23, 2009 1:01 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: It appears you are now ready...thanks bob, looking forward to it.
alleyehave - Apr 23, 2009 5:19 pm - Hasn't voted
lmaolol im just picturing you two keeping eachother warm, solid work guys.
McCannster - Apr 24, 2009 10:13 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: lmaobelieve me, it was a pretty pathetic site ;)
Bonesaw - Apr 25, 2009 12:00 pm - Voted 10/10
Great Trip Report!I especially like the lessons learned bit. Great way to conclude any epic TR! Thanks for sharing.
DrJonnie - May 9, 2009 5:13 am - Hasn't voted
Climbing moralsinteresting report and good sense shown in waiting for a clear identification of the right abseil points.
One thing I have to ask though is what do the local climbing community think about you aiding a free route? This is a no no across the pond, the principle being if you can't free the route as indicated in the guide go and do something you can free!
Maybe in the USA climbing morals are a bit different? I would be interested to know.
cheers Johnnie
McCannster - May 10, 2009 7:42 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Climbing moralsThat's a good point Johnnie. I did feel pretty lame when we were aiding, yet I know many routes all over the U.S. have aid lines that can/are climbed free, it's just that much more difficult. I think it depends on the route and where you are in terms of aiding a free route.
DrJonnie - May 11, 2009 11:42 am - Hasn't voted
Ah hagood point McC,
I guess the same applies over here in the UK, many routes that were first climbed with various points of aid are often later "free climbed".
I don't think we have the same tradition of "sport climbs" here as many other countries do where fixed protection points such as bolts are left in free climbs for clipping as runners, but then we don't have many big walls like you guys.
cheers Johnnie
MetatarsalOverMuscle - Jun 3, 2009 7:52 pm - Hasn't voted
Aiding on a free routeIf you're clean aiding on a free route and not holding up any climbing parties below you, I see no problem. Aren't Climbing Ethics in place to create a uniform understanding when talking about ascents and to protect the beauty and integrity of climbing areas. Aiding a free line shouldn't be a problem if you're not trying to claim that you climbed it free or leaving pitons or piton scars behind.
Climbing is about having fun and staying alive, in more than one sense of the word.
Good Job on making the safer decision to bivy!
Keep working on your speed and efficiency and before you know it you'll be topping out 17-pitch free routes in the dark.
Stay Alive!
Blair - Jun 25, 2009 3:24 pm - Voted 10/10
Cool ReportThanks for sharing.
Fort Mental, nice comments!