How would you account for the discrepancy between what you wrote and what the UN claims, namely that Puncak Jaya has "several peaks" including Jayakesuma/Carstenz Pyramid 4,884m, Ngga Pulu 4,862m, and Meren 4,808m. I don't think the UN is infallible but it seems we have a mystery on our hands. If there is no peak named Meren then what is the 4808m peak the UN calls by that name? I'd also be interested in the source of your information just out of curiousity :-) Perhaps someone needs to do more research (I'm not necessarily volunteering)?
Well, as the famous Chronicler Xavier Eguskitza said: mountain statistics are not an exact science!
Let me share an answer I once gave to a site visitor who asked about the 5030m high ghost mountain appearing on many maps:
"(...) actually this is problem with a double background:
Close to Carstensz Pyramid is another peak that is called Ngga Pulu/Poeloe or Jaya Peak/Puncak Jaya. It was measured during the first expeditions to the mountain ranges: 5130m (see also the maps section of the Carstensz pages).
But later expeditions and more detailed measuring proved that Carstensz was the highest peak with 4884m; This does not mean that the first explorers were wrong, as Ngga Pulu is a snow peak (see the picture taken on the summit on the Carstensz pages) and has melted considerably in the last century, so it could have been true that it was the highest peak in the 1930's, but now it has melted so much it is surely lower than Carstensz (whose summit is rock, so it won't melt...).
Unfortunately the 5130m measurement is still mentioned on most of the maps available these days; even worse, it is contributed to Carstensz Pyramid."
My research comes from a few sources: my own observations on the spot and talks with local guides and the two leading books: "To the eternal snow of Tropical Netherlands" (dutch) from the 1930's and Harrer's book: I come from the stone age. (Harrer was the climber who first ascended the pyramid and many other peaks.
I am not sure which peak the UN is referring to?!? Where did you find the reference? There are many different names for the peaks, Harrer named them after weekdays...
Any help or comments can be posted on the 7summits forum!
Thanks Diego; for you who don't have time tocheck teh page out, it's about the galial retreat all over the world, sad but true.
This is from that page:
"Meren, Carstenz, and Northwall Firn Glaciers
Irian Jaya, Indonesia
Rate of retreat increased to 45 meters a year in 1995, up from only 30 meters a year in 1936. Glacial area shrank by some 84 percent between 1936 and 1995. Meren Glacier is now close to disappearing altogether. "
I understand that the weather is always a bit unpredictable in the mountains and rainstorms can be as common as sunsets in the tropics, but is there any season that offers a bit more stable weather? Or a certain month less windy or less muddy on the approach?
No, the combination of large rainforests, with the influence of the seas and the fact that the mountains create their own weather, there really is no 'best' season.
One of the local guides told me once that February was not recommended for the additional amount of rain :)
We went there in June which is considered one of the dry seasons. On about two thirds of the mornings there was a spell of at least a few hours in the morning where the weather was essentially clear and we reached the summit of Carstensz under blue bird skies. I'm not sure if this is a trend or just that we were lucky, but I do know that they consider June to be a dry season.
The base topo for this area has a few issues with it, but to me, the location that Carstensz has been placed is actually more where East Carstensz is. Carstensz Pyramid fits much better with the narrow summit to the West of the indicated one. When climbing from the base camp to Carstensz Pyramid, you go up and over a ridge, down into a valley then climb the peak which is very narrow in the north-south direction; whereas the high elevation mass for East Carstensz is much broader...
From 5-27 june 2017 there is a belgian expedition towards Carstensz Piramide, and membership is open for all nationalities ! for more information please visit www.oceanicexpeditions.be
John - Jun 4, 2002 4:19 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentHello Harry,
How would you account for the discrepancy between what you wrote and what the UN claims, namely that Puncak Jaya has "several peaks" including Jayakesuma/Carstenz Pyramid 4,884m, Ngga Pulu 4,862m, and Meren 4,808m. I don't think the UN is infallible but it seems we have a mystery on our hands. If there is no peak named Meren then what is the 4808m peak the UN calls by that name? I'd also be interested in the source of your information just out of curiousity :-) Perhaps someone needs to do more research (I'm not necessarily volunteering)?
John - Jun 4, 2002 6:20 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentOther routes include the Koch-Milne Route (V 5.9+) first climbed by Stephen Koch and Rob Milne in 2001 as well as the American Direct Route.
7summits - Jun 7, 2002 6:16 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentWell, as the famous Chronicler Xavier Eguskitza said: mountain statistics are not an exact science!
Let me share an answer I once gave to a site visitor who asked about the 5030m high ghost mountain appearing on many maps:
"(...) actually this is problem with a double background:
Close to Carstensz Pyramid is another peak that is called Ngga Pulu/Poeloe or Jaya Peak/Puncak Jaya. It was measured during the first expeditions to the mountain ranges: 5130m (see also the maps section of the Carstensz pages).
But later expeditions and more detailed measuring proved that Carstensz was the highest peak with 4884m; This does not mean that the first explorers were wrong, as Ngga Pulu is a snow peak (see the picture taken on the summit on the Carstensz pages) and has melted considerably in the last century, so it could have been true that it was the highest peak in the 1930's, but now it has melted so much it is surely lower than Carstensz (whose summit is rock, so it won't melt...).
Unfortunately the 5130m measurement is still mentioned on most of the maps available these days; even worse, it is contributed to Carstensz Pyramid."
My research comes from a few sources: my own observations on the spot and talks with local guides and the two leading books: "To the eternal snow of Tropical Netherlands" (dutch) from the 1930's and Harrer's book: I come from the stone age. (Harrer was the climber who first ascended the pyramid and many other peaks.
See also the maps from both books, I have placed them on my site, section Carstensz, subsection maps
I am not sure which peak the UN is referring to?!? Where did you find the reference? There are many different names for the peaks, Harrer named them after weekdays...
Any help or comments can be posted on the 7summits forum!
Thanks and keep climbing, best regards,
Harry
Diego Sahagún - Jun 7, 2002 3:56 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled Commenthttp://www.worldwatch.org/alerts/000306t.html
7summits - Jun 10, 2002 4:31 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentThanks Diego; for you who don't have time tocheck teh page out, it's about the galial retreat all over the world, sad but true.
This is from that page:
"Meren, Carstenz, and Northwall Firn Glaciers
Irian Jaya, Indonesia
Rate of retreat increased to 45 meters a year in 1995, up from only 30 meters a year in 1936. Glacial area shrank by some 84 percent between 1936 and 1995. Meren Glacier is now close to disappearing altogether. "
Corax - Aug 7, 2005 4:11 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentNews on Explorersweb.com
News from the first expedition in years.
Here is one organizer that offers a package deal
7summits - Aug 25, 2005 7:00 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentYes, permits are being issued again. Almost all organisers (Mountaintrip.com, Alpine Ascents) ask $18,500 now, some ask $12,500 (7summits.com)
The prices are so high due to long helicopter approaches needed to fly to Zebra wall, just outside the mining area.
Alpinist - Aug 5, 2008 8:42 am - Voted 9/10
Update neededThe CP page has not been updated in 3 years. Do you have any new information about accessibility?
FYI - There's a discussion going on in the News Forum on this topic.
7summits - Sep 7, 2008 12:04 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Update neededHi Alpinist.
Frankly nothing has changed in 3 years, but I have updated.Nothing is or can be guaranteed on CP at the moment.
Cheers,
7s
atavist - May 21, 2010 5:27 am - Hasn't voted
WeatherI understand that the weather is always a bit unpredictable in the mountains and rainstorms can be as common as sunsets in the tropics, but is there any season that offers a bit more stable weather? Or a certain month less windy or less muddy on the approach?
7summits - Jun 3, 2010 5:12 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: WeatherNo, the combination of large rainforests, with the influence of the seas and the fact that the mountains create their own weather, there really is no 'best' season.
One of the local guides told me once that February was not recommended for the additional amount of rain :)
RobSC - Jul 7, 2010 9:06 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: WeatherWe went there in June which is considered one of the dry seasons. On about two thirds of the mornings there was a spell of at least a few hours in the morning where the weather was essentially clear and we reached the summit of Carstensz under blue bird skies. I'm not sure if this is a trend or just that we were lucky, but I do know that they consider June to be a dry season.
RobSC - Jul 7, 2010 9:02 pm - Hasn't voted
locationThe base topo for this area has a few issues with it, but to me, the location that Carstensz has been placed is actually more where East Carstensz is. Carstensz Pyramid fits much better with the narrow summit to the West of the indicated one. When climbing from the base camp to Carstensz Pyramid, you go up and over a ridge, down into a valley then climb the peak which is very narrow in the north-south direction; whereas the high elevation mass for East Carstensz is much broader...
sofie lenaerts - Feb 15, 2017 2:16 am - Hasn't voted
CarstenszFrom 5-27 june 2017 there is a belgian expedition towards Carstensz Piramide, and membership is open for all nationalities ! for more information please visit www.oceanicexpeditions.be